Commercial Strata Title??

Here is an advise from a licensed land surveyor i refer to....

Our lovely home will have a strata title at the end of the day, and as we know that the Master land title is under residential category, therefore, AH build this type of condominium with all the facilities including shop, perhaps minimart or watever 'commercial component' in our club house, which is supposed to be our common property and eventually owned by our Management corporation.

However, i was told that AH is going to own it(for cafeteria/mini-mart purposes), in the other words, AH will get the strata title for the said commercial component. If that is true, the licensed surveyor said that during the approval from the pejabat tanah & galian selangor (PTG) on the application of strata title, the PTG will request AH to convert the land use to ' bangunan kediaman & perniagaan' and to be imposed on the master land title (ofcourse there are certain premium to be paid for the conversion).

As a result, our master land title will be considered as commercial land title where the quit rent will be increased under commercial rate regardless how many percent on the commercial component compared to residential component in this residential scheme. According to him, the quitrent will likely double up compared to residential rate. (means we have to pay for commercial quitrent but living in a residential scheme)

To avoid paying the commercial rate of quitrent, there are 2 things we can do :-
1. convince AH not going to own the commercial component in the club house and let it be part of our common property. (because as long there is no commercial strata title, the master land title need not to convert)

2. if AH reluctant to do so, in the worse case, ask AH to convince the PTG on the quitrent issue, where our land title is charged under residential rate (maybe little bit higher but not full commercial).

I personally feel that all the facilities shall be under common property and owned by MC (because ultimately we taking over the MC). Therefore, all the income (rental) generated from the commercial component will go to MC account, where it helps:-
a) easy to maintain our common property with enough fund
b) lowering our monthly maintainance charges (if need to)
c) well maintainance and management will up keep our property value
d) PAY LESS QUITRENT every year

hope anyone can refer to AH for clarification.

can simply change the land title?....if change frm residential to commercial..then we hv to pay higher maintencae fee and the charge of water and electric also higher..........hw come tis happen??????

limpekdeksu, I abit confuse about AH own it? U means our developer (permium consortium) own it or AH management own it? I suppose most of the condo have all this facility as well and run by management right? Do you know how others do it?
our developer only be our management temporaly, once JMB form it should under join management commitee. And JMC will run the management of AH.
normally how soon we will get tis commercial strata title? As I also confuse because our block A, B and C will get their own CF respectively so, how it going to be? common properties suppose to own and share by 3 block right? confuse ler haha. But I guess still too early to talk bout this now, we can all talk about this maybe after JMB is form.

Now kelvin got a orchid as his profile photo.. haha.. nice one..

I suppose the facilities and all the shop shall be under common properties.. if AH is going to own it and then cause us to pay a higher quitrent, then shall we collect maintenance fees from all the shop owner as well? because they use the toilet and the water there.. the shop shud be a common properties that we can rent out and its part of our income for the management just like wat limpek said..

Its just two small shop anyway.. please dont because of this two small shop that all 700+ unit need to pay higher water and electric rates...

Lets wait for the CF and then form this JMB as soon as possible so that we can have a say in this at least.. before they make any decision..

hope the CF been approved as soon as possible...

ting: the developer has right to convert the land title because the master land title still under developer name. AND no way to doubt paying higher fee if the land title is converted...for AH(developer) ofcourse he doesnt wan to convert bcoz they need to pay for the conversion premium. however, if AH try to apply strata title for all the minimart, dobi or watsoever commercial component, the AUTHORITY sure will ask AH (developer) to convert....this is the requirement.

Kelvin: AH(developer) will overrule the management for us untill the JMB is formed, but they still steering the JMB according to the Maintainance & Common property act 2007. In contract speaking, all the unsold unit shall be under AH (developer) property and ofcouse they can say the minimart or cafeteria is thier property. In normal case, if the shop not profitable, mostly the developer wont own it and make it as common property, but IF the rental collection is good and profitable, they might FIGHT for it coz there is a good money for them, and to avoid us sharing the rental profit, they hav to say this is privately owned unit, and therefore they need a strata title to prove it is solely for AH(developer) not for AH management office. U get it clear between AH(developer) and management office?i might confuse u all using only AH instead of AH developer.. For block B, normally by looking at the site progress, the application of strata title wil wait untill block B CF out. but for the block C, it has to be a provisional strata block title, which is allowed in the strata title act. AH 1, 2 & 3 will hav equal right on the common property, paying the same rate of fee..like a big family. finally, kevin, before things turn worse, it's good to do prevention...especially dealing with strata title..it will later jam u for long period of time to get the title if too many arguement turn out between developer and purchaser.

JING: u r right, but we can only collect maintainace fee according to the share unit of the commercial component. for your information, the normal practice for the share unit allocation for residential and commercial strata title respectively is
a)unit area x 1 for residential
b)unit area x 1.5 or 2 for commercial.
by total up all to get the agregate, it relects our percentage of our share unit. so, it means u cant collect more to cover the increased quitrent, bla bla bla..bcoz the commercial component is only little percentage compared to 700++ unit residential.

after JMB is form, developer is steering the JMB? I though the JMB is form by purchaser and only one representative from developer. What you means they steering the JMB? does that means they have the final say and other JMC ppl cannot say anything? if follow the S&P, I suppose the whole club house facility is consider common property right? From what I understand for your word, is like developer is decide everything, and they can make the cafeteria or so on to be their own properties or become common properties? Is their nothing to protect our right? I know developer is chair the management untill JMB is form, thats why I would like to chase for the JMB to be form asap. I know developer have one year timeline to form this from VP date following the rules. If JMB do not form before this timeline, developer will get penalty. Are you one of the purchaser as well, maybe you can advice all of us after CF is issue for the next step. :p

The JMB is consist of developer representatives and purchasers, as a member of JBM, they have right to get the post of chairman, secretary and treasurer..if no purchaser willing to hold the post, then normally develoer will hold the post and run the management office.... which means...the block A purchaser better attend the first meeting of JMB. The lawyer of developer will explain how the JBM works during the meeting...

however, whether the cafeteria or minimart is privately owned is nothing to do with JMB bcoz JMB role is to maintain the common property ...not arguing or determine minimart or cafeteria is common or privately owned...so, if found the cafeteria is privately owned, better lodge a complaint to the land office so that land office will look in to the matter seriously...(coz they dun wan the conversion become social issue.) land office normally side on public..

thanks for your command limpekdesu, yes, I realize if there is no purchaser willing to hold the position, developer will have right to hold the post or they will find some "pro developer" purchaser to hold the post. En... we wount let this happen for sure, we have many active ppl in this forum and I sure they are more than willing to take the responsibility anytime. I know there is alot of trick can play by developer eg. hold the first meeting during working day, so that many purchaser cannot attend the meeting.
I still confuse, let say if, the cafeteria or minimart is under common property, is the conversion still a issue? and how and which party to decide who run the cafeteria or minimart? All the rental profit will go to common funding? thanks :p

Its getting complicated... I better go back and read my snp properly d..

tat's y i said, if let say the minimart or cafeteria is under common property, there is no conversion needed. this is the interesting part of strata title..where, under the common property, u may still operate it in commercial purposes as long as there is no strata title for that particular commercial plot. Ofcouse, the profit all goes to management fund under JBM or later under MC. When talking about profitable component, ppl will fight for it...developer build every square feet, they wan everything sellable...but dun forget, v buy this bcoz of the facilities..if still owned by developer..better i go for serviced apartment, which is also commercial scheme like setia walk (strata mix- development). Finally, to avoid that, someone need to clarify and complaint to authority if developer really own the things before the developer got the strata application approval from authorithy, by tat time, u need political force to resolve this, which will lead u to holand coz developer got the approval letter (authorithy wan help also can not).

Ok, I think I get what you means. So what important now is to figure out whether all "shops" in club house area is under common property or not. If it is under common property then there is no issue right? I will check back the S&P and try to find out from developer, hopefully they will tell the truth.